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	<title>Comments for Antique Horns</title>
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	<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com</link>
	<description>Collecting, Trading &#38; Information Exchange of Fine Antique Musical Instruments</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Collecting, why do we do it? by Robert Medley</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/06/30/collecting-why-do-we-do-it#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Medley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=55#comment-75</guid>
		<description>You have hit the nail on the head Michael, my thoughts exactly! Add to that the many interesting people you get to meet and the interesting and historic places you get to visit and you have the just about perfect hobby.

If age and health did'nt place restrictions on me, I'd still be out there!

Happy collecting!

Robert Medley
antiquehorns.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have hit the nail on the head Michael, my thoughts exactly! Add to that the many interesting people you get to meet and the interesting and historic places you get to visit and you have the just about perfect hobby.</p>
<p>If age and health did&#8217;nt place restrictions on me, I&#8217;d still be out there!</p>
<p>Happy collecting!</p>
<p>Robert Medley<br />
antiquehorns.com</p>
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		<title>Comment on Collecting, why do we do it? by Michael Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/06/30/collecting-why-do-we-do-it#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=55#comment-74</guid>
		<description>For myself, collecting is about preserving and continuing concepts of sound that are different than our modern ones.  Playing keyed brass, highly conical horns, and instrumentation and music that was used for popular entertainment long before even radio began is much more than mere tribute to past events; it is the perpetration of a sound that differs radically from our own, and the continuation of that style of performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For myself, collecting is about preserving and continuing concepts of sound that are different than our modern ones.  Playing keyed brass, highly conical horns, and instrumentation and music that was used for popular entertainment long before even radio began is much more than mere tribute to past events; it is the perpetration of a sound that differs radically from our own, and the continuation of that style of performance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Keyed Brasses, the first brass bands by Kenton Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/06/11/keyed-brasses-the-first-brass-bands#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenton Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=54#comment-64</guid>
		<description>If you want to hear a well-played serpent, try 

&lt;a href="http://www.yeodoug.com/articles/serpent/yeoproctor1.mp3" rel="nofollow"&gt;Douglas Yeo on Serpent&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to hear a well-played serpent, try </p>
<p><a href="http://www.yeodoug.com/articles/serpent/yeoproctor1.mp3" rel="nofollow">Douglas Yeo on Serpent</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Keyed Brasses, the first brass bands by robert medley</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/06/11/keyed-brasses-the-first-brass-bands#comment-63</link>
		<dc:creator>robert medley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=54#comment-63</guid>
		<description>Did'nt Sax invent the Saxophone by applying a reed mouthpiece to the instrument rather than the brass mouthpiece as on the ophicleide?

As a strictly brass musician, I was unaware of the open and "at rest" differences between the two. Live and learn!

The serpent is an interesting instrument to me. The first time I saw one being played was by Dr, Bob Eliason. It seemed to me to have sort of a honking sound. In the movie "Pride and Prejudice" one of the dance scenes showed a Serpent being played and there was that same honking sound. Here I thought Bob was responsible for that honking, I did'nt know it was characteristic of the Serpent. Apologies to Dr. Eliason!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did&#8217;nt Sax invent the Saxophone by applying a reed mouthpiece to the instrument rather than the brass mouthpiece as on the ophicleide?</p>
<p>As a strictly brass musician, I was unaware of the open and &#8220;at rest&#8221; differences between the two. Live and learn!</p>
<p>The serpent is an interesting instrument to me. The first time I saw one being played was by Dr, Bob Eliason. It seemed to me to have sort of a honking sound. In the movie &#8220;Pride and Prejudice&#8221; one of the dance scenes showed a Serpent being played and there was that same honking sound. Here I thought Bob was responsible for that honking, I did&#8217;nt know it was characteristic of the Serpent. Apologies to Dr. Eliason!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Keyed Brasses, the first brass bands by Kenton Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/06/11/keyed-brasses-the-first-brass-bands#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenton Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 02:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=54#comment-62</guid>
		<description>When you speak of a keyed brass band currently in existence, maybe you are talking about  &lt;a href="http://www.indianabrassband.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;Indiana Brass Band&lt;/a&gt; from Indiana, PA. 

It is interesting that the idea of a family of instruments, such as promoted by Sax, apparently wasn't applied to the keyed brass family.  They typically shared the bandstand with other types of instruments  

In addition the Kent Bugle in Bb, there was the smaller keyed bugle in Eb, the quinticlav in Eb as the alto voice; and the ophicleide.  The ophicleide showed more versatility in that it managed both the tenor voice and the bass voice, since it has a wider usable range than the smaller horns.  The ophicleide came in Bb and C, and I imagine the smaller horns may have come in other pitches as well.  

The ophicleide may look a bit like a baritone sax, which is not surprising because they both use basically the same tube/bell. This basic tube must have held some fascination for the early designers because they tried a variety of things with it.  There is the tube with brass mouthpiece  - ophicleide, there is the tube with single reed - the saxophone, there is the tube with a double reed - sarrusaphone, and there is the tube and valves - the trombacello!

The tube combined with the keys do make the ophicleide look like a saxophone, but they keys operate differently. Unlike the sax where the majority of the keys are open at rest, all but one of the keys at rest are closed on the ophicleide.  (i.e. the un-perforated tube sounds 1/2 step lower than the named pitch of the instrument.)   Additionally, the fingering pattern little sense, with some combinations used for several notes, and then arranged in no logical pattern.

Another attempt at making a low voice before valves was the Russian bassoon.  This horn which resembles a mal-nutrition-ed  ophicleide with holes rather than keys, is often referred to as an upright serpent.  But then it is neither Russian nor a bassoon, so you be the judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you speak of a keyed brass band currently in existence, maybe you are talking about  <a href="http://www.indianabrassband.com" rel="nofollow">Indiana Brass Band</a> from Indiana, PA. </p>
<p>It is interesting that the idea of a family of instruments, such as promoted by Sax, apparently wasn&#8217;t applied to the keyed brass family.  They typically shared the bandstand with other types of instruments  </p>
<p>In addition the Kent Bugle in Bb, there was the smaller keyed bugle in Eb, the quinticlav in Eb as the alto voice; and the ophicleide.  The ophicleide showed more versatility in that it managed both the tenor voice and the bass voice, since it has a wider usable range than the smaller horns.  The ophicleide came in Bb and C, and I imagine the smaller horns may have come in other pitches as well.  </p>
<p>The ophicleide may look a bit like a baritone sax, which is not surprising because they both use basically the same tube/bell. This basic tube must have held some fascination for the early designers because they tried a variety of things with it.  There is the tube with brass mouthpiece  - ophicleide, there is the tube with single reed - the saxophone, there is the tube with a double reed - sarrusaphone, and there is the tube and valves - the trombacello!</p>
<p>The tube combined with the keys do make the ophicleide look like a saxophone, but they keys operate differently. Unlike the sax where the majority of the keys are open at rest, all but one of the keys at rest are closed on the ophicleide.  (i.e. the un-perforated tube sounds 1/2 step lower than the named pitch of the instrument.)   Additionally, the fingering pattern little sense, with some combinations used for several notes, and then arranged in no logical pattern.</p>
<p>Another attempt at making a low voice before valves was the Russian bassoon.  This horn which resembles a mal-nutrition-ed  ophicleide with holes rather than keys, is often referred to as an upright serpent.  But then it is neither Russian nor a bassoon, so you be the judge.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Valved Trombones, their faded glory by robert medley</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/05/23/valved-trombones-their-faded-glory#comment-56</link>
		<dc:creator>robert medley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=48#comment-56</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the input Michael. You raise some important points that Kenton and I did not mention. Hope to see you on the websites often and that you share your thoughts with us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the input Michael. You raise some important points that Kenton and I did not mention. Hope to see you on the websites often and that you share your thoughts with us.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To restore or not to restore by robert medley</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/03/21/to-restore-or-not-to-restore#comment-55</link>
		<dc:creator>robert medley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:31:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/03/21/to-restore-or-not-to-restore/#comment-55</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the heads up Steve, Its nice to go straight to the subject and information like yours lets the novice medium and advanced collector as well as the average Joe find what he is looking for without flailing around for 30 years like I did.

I hope that Jeff and you will share the restoration projects on your two very important finds with our audience. Could you possibly get us a picture of both the before and after of that restoration (with Robbs approval of course) My collector friend Udo Koehne in Bonn sent me pictures of a before and after of a 2 valve  ivory button upright cornet he had done in Germany. That restorer is an artist in a class with Robb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the heads up Steve, Its nice to go straight to the subject and information like yours lets the novice medium and advanced collector as well as the average Joe find what he is looking for without flailing around for 30 years like I did.</p>
<p>I hope that Jeff and you will share the restoration projects on your two very important finds with our audience. Could you possibly get us a picture of both the before and after of that restoration (with Robbs approval of course) My collector friend Udo Koehne in Bonn sent me pictures of a before and after of a 2 valve  ivory button upright cornet he had done in Germany. That restorer is an artist in a class with Robb.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Valved Trombones, their faded glory by Michael Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/05/23/valved-trombones-their-faded-glory#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=48#comment-54</guid>
		<description>(please remove above)

I think that the valved alto trombone was more popular that it may seem at first, at least by total band percentage..

In the American town band, in the days before the valved "French" horn became the dominant alto voice, there were upright altos, solo altos, and alto valved trombones that provided this important inner voice of the brass band, particularly for marching bands.

I think that later in the 19th century, it was the alto utilizing Henry Lehnert’s conical mouthpipe that demonstrated great superiority in response, “slotting”,  flexibility and intonation. Eventually, the upright bell altohorn using this design feature overtook even Lehnert’s own Centennial valve trombones due to their much greater availability. 

Finally, valved horns (which were twice the length, but even smaller bore) overtook all of the altos, and gave rise to the Distin Altophone and then the mellophone as marching instruments.

I suspect the main use of the tenor valve trombone was in the  band that required a bright tenor voice, but only had extra cornet players or euphonium players to fill in when a trained slide trombonist was not available and the conditions proved to be too rough. The double-belled euphonium was eventually created to perform just such a roll as well.

Slides required greater preparation and maintenance.  Eventually, as bands became larger and required more time commitment, the more flexible slide trombone became much preferred as metallurgy and oils became available.  
Just some thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(please remove above)</p>
<p>I think that the valved alto trombone was more popular that it may seem at first, at least by total band percentage..</p>
<p>In the American town band, in the days before the valved &#8220;French&#8221; horn became the dominant alto voice, there were upright altos, solo altos, and alto valved trombones that provided this important inner voice of the brass band, particularly for marching bands.</p>
<p>I think that later in the 19th century, it was the alto utilizing Henry Lehnert’s conical mouthpipe that demonstrated great superiority in response, “slotting”,  flexibility and intonation. Eventually, the upright bell altohorn using this design feature overtook even Lehnert’s own Centennial valve trombones due to their much greater availability. </p>
<p>Finally, valved horns (which were twice the length, but even smaller bore) overtook all of the altos, and gave rise to the Distin Altophone and then the mellophone as marching instruments.</p>
<p>I suspect the main use of the tenor valve trombone was in the  band that required a bright tenor voice, but only had extra cornet players or euphonium players to fill in when a trained slide trombonist was not available and the conditions proved to be too rough. The double-belled euphonium was eventually created to perform just such a roll as well.</p>
<p>Slides required greater preparation and maintenance.  Eventually, as bands became larger and required more time commitment, the more flexible slide trombone became much preferred as metallurgy and oils became available.<br />
Just some thoughts.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To restore or not to restore by Steven Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/03/21/to-restore-or-not-to-restore#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 02:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/03/21/to-restore-or-not-to-restore/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>There are 15 American made Twin piston valve Trumpets (also known as Post Horns) that I am aware of.  Also an additional 7 other instruments.  Of the trumpets, 3 are at the Fiske museum, One at the Ford, one in the Utley collection (you can see it online and is probably the one you are referring to having seen) and one in the Smithonian.  Seven are Graves NH, two Allen, Five Wright, and one Fiske.  Of the Graves, two are whole step first valves, three are half step, and two are not known.  Mine in a whole step.

Yes, I will have it restored by Robb Stewart in the coming year.

Steve</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 15 American made Twin piston valve Trumpets (also known as Post Horns) that I am aware of.  Also an additional 7 other instruments.  Of the trumpets, 3 are at the Fiske museum, One at the Ford, one in the Utley collection (you can see it online and is probably the one you are referring to having seen) and one in the Smithonian.  Seven are Graves NH, two Allen, Five Wright, and one Fiske.  Of the Graves, two are whole step first valves, three are half step, and two are not known.  Mine in a whole step.</p>
<p>Yes, I will have it restored by Robb Stewart in the coming year.</p>
<p>Steve</p>
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		<title>Comment on Civil War Composers, who was the best? Who is your favorite? by Kenton Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.antiquehorns.com/2008/05/31/civil-war-composers-who-was-the-best-who-is-your-favorite#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenton Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.antiquehorns.com/?p=52#comment-51</guid>
		<description>Who's the best?  That's a tough one.  Claudio is certainly a good candidate. The bulk of his work, and his presence in the brass band movement was certainly impressive.  But, there are others to consider.  

If you had asked the question 100 years ago, you probably would have gotten Patrick S. Gilmore.

50 years before that you might have gotten the Dodworth family. 

Downing, Ingalls, Eaton. Johnson, JP King.Hall. Julien.Willis, Bond, White, Winner, and Kleber  were all prolific and accomplished writers.  

But then is should also be remembered that all of the above also would interpret and arrange music composed by others, and some of the best work they did was to adapt the work of Strauss, Verdi, Donizetti, Gounod, Rossini, Mozart, Bellini. Mendelsohn, and Beethoven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who&#8217;s the best?  That&#8217;s a tough one.  Claudio is certainly a good candidate. The bulk of his work, and his presence in the brass band movement was certainly impressive.  But, there are others to consider.  </p>
<p>If you had asked the question 100 years ago, you probably would have gotten Patrick S. Gilmore.</p>
<p>50 years before that you might have gotten the Dodworth family. </p>
<p>Downing, Ingalls, Eaton. Johnson, JP King.Hall. Julien.Willis, Bond, White, Winner, and Kleber  were all prolific and accomplished writers.  </p>
<p>But then is should also be remembered that all of the above also would interpret and arrange music composed by others, and some of the best work they did was to adapt the work of Strauss, Verdi, Donizetti, Gounod, Rossini, Mozart, Bellini. Mendelsohn, and Beethoven.</p>
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