Vienna Valves and their role in Music
Today, only the Vienna Symphony uses horns with Vienna Valves. They are specially made and they, like the Berliner Pumpen valve, seem to have disappeared into obscurity. Vienna valves, known in the United States as Vienna Double slide valves, are little known. Surprisingly, American makers attempted to make Vienna Valves and several have been found in American collections. One sold recently on ebay for $14,400. It was made by Graves in Boston, probably in the 1850’s.
Another example by a obscure maker in Cincinnati is in the 1st Brigade Band collection and can be viewed online at the band’s very interesting website. The 1st Brigade Band is a website that should be visited by anyone, collector or researcher, to view the collection.
I actually played one of my Vienna valved horns when I was in the 1st Brigade Band and I found it to play rather well. I still always went back to my Berliner Pumpen Alto, as it was the horn I preferred over all others. I guess every musician has a favorite and I had mine.
One of the men in the band, as his favorite, preferred a rotary valve alto horn that was used in the original 1st Brigade Band in the 1850’s. It was used at the Lincoln-Douglass debates in Illinois before the Civil War. Playing a horn with a historic connection is a joy in itself. Just for your info - it didn’t play as well as my favorite, the Berliner Pumpen Alto.
Der Hauptgrund, warum die Trompete mit Wiener Ventilen einen so hohen Preis erzielte, dürfte daran liegen, daß das Instrument von Graves ,Boston, hergestellt wurde und Klinkendrücker hat. Das ist doch ziemlich selten zu finden.
Machine Translation: The main reason why the trumpet with Viennese valves such a high price achieved should be because the instrument of Graves, Boston, manufactured and jack handle. This is quite rare to find.
Hello Udo, I believe you are correct on the Graves valves. I have only seen one other example of the Graves valves, but I can’t remember where.
Hello Udo,
You use the term “Klinkendrucker”
For many collectors, especially here in the U.S., that description has never been heard. Can you give a brief description of what that is and what it means to german collectors and music historians?
Robert,
I want to confirm my understanding of the Klinkendrucker valve.
Is it correct to say that they have the appearance of a vienna valve but function like spring loaded mini trombone slides?
Hello Kenton,
I have not heard from Udo recently. Perhaps he means that the Neumainzer valve is in a subcategory of the vienna valve family.
To Udo: can you clarify this for us? When it comes to vienna valves, we need all the help we can get.
BTW Kenton, what do you think of Gordons video conference via Skype?
The conversations are rather fun. The one on the klinkerdrucker valves was both educational and the format was about ideal, long enough but not too long.
My only recommendation is that you may want to leave a bit more detailed notes of the topic discussed. I want to explore the klinkerdrucker valve a bit more, and will have to listen to the conference again. (I know, I should have taken my own notes, the first time through!) But, I imagine that the search engines may be able to index your content better with the notes.
Kenton
OK, in listening again, I did not understand the valve correctly. So, I’m back to wondering what exactly the difference between the klinkerdrucker and the vienna is.
For example the Schuster Fluglehorn on the 1st Brigade Band’s WEB site, appear to me to be the same as your example in the broadcast, and pretty similar to the Graves. So, is it not really a Vienna as well?
Hello Kenton,
i’m as much in the dark on this subject as you are. I guess we’ll just have to wait until Udo has a chance to clarify the subject for us. I have just two examples of this type of valve and will post an article and perhaps an interview on my horn by Julius Hell of Vienna circa 1841 so the difference between the two horns can be observed. Do you have any pictures or examples of this type of valve in your collection that you could share with us?
I think Udo is on tour with the Bonn Symphony and will respond as soon as he can. Dan Woolpert could probably also add to this subject, I’ll check with him.
Thanks for your kind words on this website. We appreciate your participation.
Thanks for the research and the post Kenton. Notice that the Graves instrument is close to what Udo is suggesting? That is the first Isaac Fiske vienna valve horn I have ever seen.Fiske made some really fine, playable instruments.
These are the pictures I could easily find of Vienna Valves - I’m sure
there are more:
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/Van-Cauwelaert/Van-Cauwelaert-trombone-val.jpg
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/Besson/Besson-trombone-valve.jpg
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/misc/DeVint-valve-trombone.jpg
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/misc/wein-fr-horn.jpg
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/Graves/Graves-cornet-vienna.jpg
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/Graves/Graves-Tromacello.jpg
http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments/Stowasser/Stowasser-baritone.jpg
There is also this WEB site:
http://www.usd.edu/smm/UtleyPages/DoublePistonValves/DoublePistonValveChecklist.html
Kenton Scott
http://www.horn-u-copia.net
I just visited your website horn-u-copia for the first time.
What an absolute treasure of information it is for the music historian, collector, educator, or average Joe looking for information on an instrument he just found in the attic.
I have registered and will be a frequent visitor to horn-u-copia.
Thanks for the info on the Vienna valve horns. If you find anything more on Graves, please let me know.
Hallo Kenton,
ich muß ein Mißverständnis aufklären.
Alle angesprochenen Instrumente haben Wiener Ventile, nur die Mechanik, die sie bewegen, sind zu verschiedenen Zeiten unterschiedlich konstruiert worden. Bei der oben aufgeführten Andreas Barth-Trompete sind es 2 , bei der Graves 3 Klinkendrücker.
Bei dem Althorn von Robert haben wir “Wiener Ventile” mit einem Neumainzer Druckwerk. Die Hell-Trompete hat ein Trommeldruckwerk, was nicht so alt und so selten ist wie zum Beispiel die Klinkendrückertrompeten. Und so gibt es durch Zeit weitere Druckwerkaplikationen für Wiener Ventile. Sie alle kann man doch sehr gut an The Joe R. and Joella F. Utley Collection of Brass Instruments studieren.
Mit besten Grüßen
Uo Köhne.
Hello Kenton,
In case you have not already used google translate to decipher what Udo has said, here is a short version translation,
The alto horn I used as an example of my misidentifying a horn actually IS a vienna valve horn. Udo was referring to the mechanism used to drive the vienna double slide valve, and in the case of my horn, it is the “Neumainzer Klinkendrucker” that is used.
As you know, the Vienna Valve is little known in the U.S. and this point has received little attention here. Thanks to Udo for clearing up that question for us.